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New results posted:http://eoganachtsepts.com/results.htm

Project summary updated: http://eoganachtsepts.com/index.htm

We now include the Eoganacht sept, South Irish, O'Mahoney, and Sullivans in our research to identify family trees through modal haplotype and SNP analysis using our Case Study Framework: http://eoganachtsepts.com/Case%20Studies.htm.  The Bowe/Bowes cadet project is in the process of joining us.  If you belong to a project considered associated with the Eoganacht septs through clan or cadet branch names, consider joining our research project.  I will analyze all projects at the same time, in order to maximize the opportunity to see the larger picture for the Eoganacht sept YDNA and history.

By some the Eoganacht are considered a pseudo family/political party rather than leaders who passed on their leadership role to their descendants creating a strong YDNA lineage as did the Irish I in the North of Ireland.  From my research this appears to fall within the range of my data and mirrors the conclusion found by the Trinity 2008 Study.  However, there is still much to be learned by studying the descendents of the Eoganacht for their modal haplotypes, SNPs and family history. 

I have developed a repeatable process, Case Study Framework,  to build family trees and branches using the work of Dr. Anatole Klyosov specifically for mutation rate calculation.  We identify clusters through patterns and using phylogenetic software.  To verify the clusters as family trees or branches, we use Dr. Klyosov's mutation rate calculation formula.  If the results are within a reasonable range, we have found a family tree.  Since the % of YDNA tested per the population is quite low, it takes considerable work to find a valid cluster considered to be a family tree or branch.

The YDNA data I use in the Case Study Framework then reviews how those identified in the family tree are related.  For this we need family histories.  We would like to gather each project members family history and place it into a comment attached to the member name in our results workbook: see the name column (BY) in our current results workbook:http://eoganachtsepts.com/results.htm see rows 10 (McCarty), 60 (McGill), and 94 (Sullivan) for examples of how this information is presented.

Can you send us your family history is this format (please send your comments to comments@eoganachtsepts.com):

-Kitnumber
-Known septs, clans, or cadet branch
-Full Name of Earliest Known Male Ancestor Surname
-birthdate
-Birthplace
-Emigration from..., Immigration to...
-Other useful information

Most members do no know their family histories either in the U.S. or Ireland.  We are hoping to gather enough information from those who do know their family histories that we may be able to extrapolate some information you may find useful. 

I need volunteers to help format the family history in excel, developers to help build family trees and branches, and those who are interested in building out the surnames and histories of the Eoganacht septs, clans and cadet branches.

This is a large project and like many of you I have full time responsibilities.  It has taken considerable time and research to get to this point and I believe I have provided considerable tools and knowledge to start building out the Eoganacht/South Irish research project in earnest.  Without more help the project will get done but it will take much more time.  I believe most of our members would like some answers sooner than later.  You can be a part of the solution.

If you wish to be a volunteer or read about the progress of the research work, you can join the Eo'ganacht Yahoo Groups Forum.

Kathleen Sullivan Kerwin

admin for the Eoganacht septs, South Irish and Sullivan Projects

On Researching the South Irish Y-DNA:

It might be helpful if I shared a bit of background about Trinity College and the Smurfit Institute of Genetics.  They applied and received funding from the Irish government for a population genetics study of the Irish for the millennium celebration.  As far as I know, this was their first attempt at studying human Y-DNA.  Prof Dan Bradley headed the effort and the main work was done by Brian McEvoy, a doctoral student at the time. They completed several papers, with Brian finishing the last one on the Eóganacht as part of his doctoral thesis - Genetic Investigation of Irish Ancestry and Surname History.  Brian is now in Australia and no longer affiliated with Trinity at all.  Dan Bradley has gone back to his original pursuits, basically studying cattle and chicken genetics.  There is no interest or funding there in continuing any research on Irish human DNA.  I have been in communication with Dan occasionally and know this to be true.  We must accept their studies as is, with their accompanying limitations and biases. 

Realizing the methodology used and the agenda behind some of their findings is useful to understand the relative significance of their results and conclusions.  Their earlier papers did identify the different haplogroups found in their collected database. Though the 2008 paper does not say so, I do believe that all the results used in it are haplogroup R1b1b.  The way Brian approached categorizing the results, however, he did not focus on any clusters as such and made no effort at identifying any possible subclades, which would entail SNP testing for which they were not equipped.  I had opportunity to speak with Brian before he completed his paper, and without meaning to criticize, it appeared to me that his predisposition was to suggest that the Eóganacht were not of a common heritage, opposed to their previously ‘discovered’ IMH, which they purported to be a more pure and significant subclade (I think this was before M22 was discovered, categorizing it as a legitimate subclade).  With such a limited number of markers tested, their database cannot compare to what we can obtain through the surname projects and Ysearch accessible to us.  We are in a far better position than they were to research, identify and correlate the hundreds of haplotypes available to us for study.

While Ken Nordtvedt dabbles in all haplogroups and has information on his website about various subclades he has identified, his main focus in on Haplogroup I, of which he is part.  He is always cordial if contacted to inquire of something specific to his website data, but I’ve found him to have limited follow-up interest, and I would not expect him to become actively involved in our research about the South Irish.  His 12 marker haplotype is only part of the whole, which has been identified and the full modal established by others.  Your own spreadsheets make evident that its usefulness is limited compared to the full modal, and you obtain far more resolution and information from the full modal when making you comparisons.

You have ambitious goals, which is commendable.  I see them as divided into three parts.  You hope to identify various septs within the Sullivans through yDNA testing and classification of clusters within the Sullivans themselves. You have interest in the Eóganacht, which are identified by surnames listed in the various genealogical tracts and pedigrees.  You also wish to research the South Irish haplotype, since it demarcates a significant cluster of individuals common in the prominent surnames of the Eóganacht dynasty.

I would see the first goal to be focused within the Sullivan surname project itself, recruiting likely individuals who may have familial connections to one or the other of the historical septs of the Sullivans.

The second and third goals can be studied through the projects you have initiated but could be supplemented by ‘data mining’ the surname projects and searching Ysearch to obtain a larger database to work with.  There are other organizations like DNA Heritage and Sorenson who have their own databases and search mechanisms available to us.  I frankly don’t use them much myself, but would certainly be willing to provide links to anyone who would like to give it a go.  I already have hundreds of South Irish haplotypes collected through various search efforts, but the more the better.

I’ve copied Finbar O’Mahony in this note as well.  He is the new Group Administrator of the O’Mahony surname project, and while somewhat smaller at the moment, it does contain a significant percentage of South Irish (of which he is one) and he has great interest in this research.  He helped fund the WTY test for The Glens.

Enough said for now.  I hope this helps focus somewhat where our efforts should be directed.  I had the impression that Kevin’s results were in completely when I heard about L459.  If that is not the case, be sure to let us know when they are.

For now,

Elizabeth